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Thread: Difference Overseas

  1. #1
    Biker Trash Maars's Avatar
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    Default Difference Overseas

    I took the wife overseas from 28 July to 20 August.....under duress (not really). We vistited a couple of countries like France (Paris), Venice, Athens and some Greek Islands. My observation on biking was as follows:-

    1. Paris - around 30 to 40 percent are on scooters.....less bikes. And it's busy....back and through....scooters at quite a speed and the cars. But.....no accident I saw during my stay there. The way traffic was flowing...in RSA.....there would have been many accidents. One thing they had.....respect for all on the road. Althought fast and furious.......they had respect. I saw bussiness men and woman in formal clothing taking the scoot....some even smoking while driving. AGATT is not a concern to them. And no reffing of bikes are happening at all - what I observed.
    2. Athens - same as Paris....more reckless. Driving where they want...still no accidents other than the loud swear words throwing by to whoever
    3. Santorini - a danger zone(children)......anybody can get a scoot or quad....main mean of transport on the island. Children allowed to ride, not much policing......but still not a lot of accidents (did not see any during the 5 days we stayed there).

    We hired some scoots...........what a joy !!

    So, the question I pose:

    1. Do we need more bikers on the road to achieve the same as European countries to make the cagers more aware of us?
    2. Do we need more aggressive legislation to address cager behavior like Mosambique - in Mosambique you get arrested for hitting a pedestrain...period,,even if you are not quitly, I have friends living there,...scary stuff....paying compensation etc

    I know some countries are quite bad in this respect like China etc.......still, we are a small community and we have a high accident rate !

  2. #2
    BMW Fan. Zen.'s Avatar
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    1. No.
    2. No.

    Why?

    1. Bikers aren't the problem. People are. People in this country drive without a 2nd thought for their fellow motorists no matter how many tyres they have on the road.
    2. Legislation won't help if it can't be enforced. For every 1 car taken off the road due to breaking the law, there are many more that will do the same thing without being punished. We have a culture of "everyone for themselves" on our roads.

  3. #3
    I are a chicken! nonconformiss's Avatar
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    Shanghainese are nutters on the roads (and pavements) too. I had one head-on collision there, with another electric scooter. I think we were both avoiding potholes and expecting the other rider to move. On the other occasion a motorist parked in the bike lane, saw me coming and opened his door anyway. When I was lying on the road he said it was my fault for going too fast. I'm not sure what the accident rate is there. A significant difference in thinking is that if you see someone coming, it's your job to avoid them. So when you cross the road you shouldn't look at the drivers, and when a scooter comes up behind you on the pavement, you shouldn't turn around, then they'll go around you. Once I figured this out, it worked every time.

    According to my Zimbabwean colleagues, there's a perception there that biker=gangster. This doesn't seem to be the case further north though - I always look out for bikes when watching Voetspore.

    I don't know if it's possible to change to a way of thinking that regards bikes and scooters as normal transport - but perhaps consideration would come along with that? As more people ride scooters, more will realise how much it hurts when you fall off one.

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  4. #4
    Biker Trash Maars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen. View Post
    1. No.
    2. No.

    Why?

    1. Bikers aren't the problem. People are. People in this country drive without a 2nd thought for their fellow motorists no matter how many tyres they have on the road.
    2. Legislation won't help if it can't be enforced. For every 1 car taken off the road due to breaking the law, there are many more that will do the same thing without being punished. We have a culture of "everyone for themselves" on our roads.
    Ja, its country bounded which may be true. I believe it can be changed with the proper enforcement. But yes....you are right....RSA is becoming lawless. Last night (luckily I was in a cage) an idiot overtook me in the yellow line.........drunk bastard. If my wife was not present I might have ended up in jail as, if she didn't stop me, I would have taken him to meet his maker much sooner.

  5. #5
    Nuon Fangirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maars View Post
    Ja, its country bounded which may be true. I believe it can be changed with the proper enforcement. But yes....you are right....RSA is becoming lawless. Last night (luckily I was in a cage) an idiot overtook me in the yellow line.........drunk bastard. If my wife was not present I might have ended up in jail as, if she didn't stop me, I would have taken him to meet his maker much sooner.


    A large part of the lawlessness you mention, would be you attacking a reckless driver like you mention above.

  6. #6
    Herman the German THE MOOSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maars View Post
    I took the wife overseas from 28 July to 20 August.....under duress (not really). We vistited a couple of countries like France (Paris), Venice, Athens and some Greek Islands. My observation on biking was as follows:-

    1. Paris - around 30 to 40 percent are on scooters.....less bikes. And it's busy....back and through....scooters at quite a speed and the cars. But.....no accident I saw during my stay there. The way traffic was flowing...in RSA.....there would have been many accidents. One thing they had.....respect for all on the road. Althought fast and furious.......they had respect. I saw bussiness men and woman in formal clothing taking the scoot....some even smoking while driving. AGATT is not a concern to them. And no reffing of bikes are happening at all - what I observed.
    2. Athens - same as Paris....more reckless. Driving where they want...still no accidents other than the loud swear words throwing by to whoever
    3. Santorini - a danger zone(children)......anybody can get a scoot or quad....main mean of transport on the island. Children allowed to ride, not much policing......but still not a lot of accidents (did not see any during the 5 days we stayed there).

    We hired some scoots...........what a joy !!

    So, the question I pose:

    1. Do we need more bikers on the road to achieve the same as European countries to make the cagers more aware of us?
    2. Do we need more aggressive legislation to address cager behavior like Mosambique - in Mosambique you get arrested for hitting a pedestrain...period,,even if you are not quitly, I have friends living there,...scary stuff....paying compensation etc

    I know some countries are quite bad in this respect like China etc.......still, we are a small community and we have a high accident rate !
    I took the wife overseas from 1st May to July 31st. We visited a couple of countries like Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia Herzegovina, Albania, Greece, Turkey, Italy, Switzerland, France, Spain, Portugal. We had similar observations.

    Scooters are kings in the towns. A higher percentage of the general population seem to use them as a means of transport. We did not come across any accidents involving two wheeled vehicles. ATGATT is an alien concept in the Mediterranean countries.

    I feel that we are doing a pretty good job in terms of TB, although not enough to my liking. I have no statistics on hand to come to a conclusion if the proportionate number of two wheeled vehicles compared to cars/trucks/etc. is similar to ours and neither any information that could lead to a conclusion about the relative number of accidents. I also would like to find out from European hospitals, what their staff could tell us, particularly due to the lack of ATGATT.

    If legislation changes it down here remains questionable but it would be a good start. What we can do is continuously work on the general public to understand the consequences of each individual's actions. Repeatedly.
    You don't ride in the rain, you don't ride!

  7. #7
    Aquaman's Avatar
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    1. Do we need more bikers on the road to achieve the same as European countries to make the cagers more aware of us? Yes. A smaller group would statistically speaking have a tougher time making other citizens aware of their presence. What % do bikes represent on an ordinary commute in your area? Less than 1%, I would safely presume. Look at the change in driver behaviour close to schools. By and large drivers anticipate that a kid or a cell-eared mommy is going to do something utterly stooped, therefore most road users would drive more cautiously. It is perhaps a matter of being pre-programmed.Cagers are by and large not pre-programmed to look out for bikes. But we see almost every taxi. Why? Not about the size, but because we anticipate every single one is out to ruin our day.
    2. Do we need more aggressive legislation to address cager behaviour like Mosambique - in Mosambique you get arrested for hitting a pedestrain...period,,even if you are not quitly, I have friends living there,...scary stuff....paying compensation etc. No, we need faster access to the justice system (courts) not more legislation. This Country is riddled with more legislation every year, and saddled with less competent humans to enforce them. Our enforcement agencies and courts are becoming a farce.
    Suddenly terror struck...he`s never seen a naked woman before...

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