instructions regarding nics

[theRéhann]

Packman, what everyone (I optimistically say) on this forum has in common, is the passion for safety in biking.

But TB is also an online community. And there is huge banter going on. Ons safety issues and on more important issues like the use of nics, avatars and so on.

The awareness campaign is slightly removed from the forum. That is done through the website and other activities. The forum is about the members and supporters of the community having a "kuier".

It would be disappointing if you don't stick around because of that...

We always invite people to join the forum, because there is lots of interaction. Ask for advice, vent over issues that **** you off, etc. The Biker Pub is where we sit and kuier. Obviously this is the silly season, because there are no matters more pressing than the use of avatars...

But please stick around. If you want advice or want to discuss issues pertaining to safety, believe me, these threads about avatar use will die immiediately.

So pitch us a question!

[Trumpet]

No it's not, but I don't want to awaken my fellow forum nazis...

As PC as I am, I was once sanctioned about a post I made, you know. It still smarts a little...

[WBro]

Why are the solutions always to be more heavy handed, to be more draconian in the approach.

Why not less rigidity , less control.

Its the cost of a meal out and towards a good cause. Like a bus.... get on and pay the fare or dont get on. Simple reallllly

[DaCat]

You're right DC - this place HAS changed over the years... from being a 'biker forum' to accepting more and more sectors of society... or ARE we being accepting?

Fact is - the committee and moderators (yes, some of whom are still 'hardcore bikers') - voted in by YOU (the community) - are faced with having to deal with EVERY sector of society - and everybody's opinions... and trying to find the balance between a 'hardcore/ free/ rebel' biker society and the emerging sector who are motorcyclists/ commuters/ school kids - you name it.

We'll NEVER be perfect... we'll continue making mistakes and learning - as we've done by appointing a new group of moderators - voted in by YOU (the community)...

So if you can find a balance that can encompass EVERY sector of society without prejudice, then please go ahead... come and attend the meetings - get involved with the politics - see what it's like... sitting on the side throwing rocks isn't going to achieve anything.

I ask you - what is THINK BIKE? Is it a 'bikers only' playground? Or is it a safety awareness campaign?

There are many 'bikers only' forums and others dedicated to playing in the dirt or even seeing who's got the fastest bikes... sure, they may include an ELEMENT of safety... but they each serve their place in society - that address the specific needs of a select sector of society - usually to the exclusion of folks who differ of opinion.

But THINK BIKE encompasses ALL those diverse forums/ cultures/ perceptions etc... in the hope that we try to spread a message of SAFETY and one of RESPECT...

How can we expect society in general to respect bikers in general?
The motorist sees a 'biker'... he/she does not make differentiation to being a biker or motorcyclist or commuter or someone's mother/ father/ child... we ALL face the SAME challenges on our roads...

So yeah - we should be DAMN proud of what Think Bike has achieved... and its roots will always be there - and will never be forgotten... so long as the cause is continually supported by EVERYBODY regardless of sector/ status/ race/ religion etc.

So to all those who continually hammer the campaign and then get in a hissy fit and walk away - I challenge you to take a long hard look at yourself...
You've chosen to support Think Bike - why is that? For safety reasons?
I'm sure most of us belong to more than one forum... I urge you to use the other forums for your antics... but please respect and support what Think Bike is trying to do? Save YOUR skin!

The support for Think Bike, it's aims and goals has never been an issue. We have and will always support them and the committee so that they may be achieved... never doubt or question that loyalty. It's not the issue here.

The issue here was with regards to over moderation which was totally unnecessary and way over the top. What do you have to say about that? That I am interested in hearing.

[WBro]

From DC's comments:

My ride is Liveried Up as they say: Sticker here, sticker there, a TB bib here and way too many waves and "thank you's"

TB gets good exposure from WBro. All paid for too.

Yes I have crossed a line (or double) here and everywhere - we all do - its Afrika. But the balance sheet shows a huge gain to the "Brand" which is what TB has to use to get the message accross to all on and off the road. I carry TB stickers in the Top Box ready for use anywhere relavant and positive.

Opionions are what makes us great, the differences make us unique and together they make us enviable and powerful.

[BLACK WIDOW]

Now, without mentioning names, let me tell you about something that happened soem time ago.

A non-member, one of those loudmouths that BB shares my opinion on, managed to make a couple of "veteran" paid-up members from a specific area in Gauteng take their stuff and go. We haven't seen them on the forum since. They still ride passionately and do greet us should we run into another. But TB will not see them again. Ever.

I am talking about good people who contributed considerably to the campaign and its members. They were chased away by a loudmouth who got obnoxious with them and this loudmouth, who has never been a paid-up member, was not moderated or disciplined by the mods or the committee, in the interest of freedom of speech. Obviously that was a failing and the responsibility ultimately lies with the (elected) committee.

So we live and learn. Sometimes you have to decide on the lesser of two evils:
- p!sss off a non-member loudmouth who has some following but who will never join the campaign
- let freedom of speech reign regardless and take the risk of losing paid-up members and make sponsors worry about control

Believe me, I have served two full terms on the committee before as the born politican with the gift of the gab. We've been up and down this road before. Many times. So I do know what I'm talking about.

We believe in freedom of speech, but our responsiblity first and foremost, is to the campaign. If I have to choose between stepping on a loudmouth's toes and keeping it clean for the campaign, my decision will be made in the time it takes me to bat an eye.

But your point about transparency is obviously a very valif one and it is taken in the spirit that it is offered. The committee does not see itself as above criticism or advice.

As far as pointers on avatars are concerned, I think that would be over-engineering a simple issue.

If someone approaches the mods or committee about an avatar that seems dodgy, it will be considered. It does not have to be done in a heavy-handed way, but if the person gets tetchy about it, it might end unpleasantly. But such is life.


I see no problem with this advice at all. In a democracy the voters have the right to call their elected representatives to order, also between elections. I think the committee takes note of the concern.

I fully support and have much respect for TB campaign, BUT, since my thread airing my opinion was deleted I have to question whether this is not just a ego trip for some people and I dont see the benefit of that to campaign where the intention is to make as many people aware and supportive of the campaign! That will never be accomplished by policing avatars and nic names, some of which people have had for many years!

[BLACK WIDOW]

+10000

Again, I ask whether this whole saga about PP has been blown way out of the water regarding her nic and avatar. I personally think a couple of people overreacted on this. I found PP nic very good, very ambiguous. If you thought the dirty part, then you would have found it offensive.

I agree whole heartedly! I dont think the commitee is aware that P.P is actually a business in the biking communitee supplying biking products who was a potential sponsor to the forum and she fully supports the safety campaign! She was insulted and threatened by the TB moderators! She has left the forum due to the potential impact on her business as a result of the unnecessary change of her avatar and nic which is representitive of her business in S.A and abroad!

On a personal note I have known P.P for many years and she is a lady of class and warm heart who supports good causes with best intentions at heart she is the last one to be smutty or imply any sexual connotations!
If any one had any questions regarding her nic they could have gladly browsed her web site and all their answers would have been answered! She would have been an asset to TB and now the chances of her showing her face back here are lost!

To be honest TB fooked up right royally!

[BLACK WIDOW]

In all of this we need to ask ourselves one question " Would the BUCC have wanted P.P to change her handle to participate in this forum?"

[DaCat]

In all of this we need to ask ourselves one question " Would the BUCC have wanted P.P to change her handle to participate in this forum?"

Most will know the answer to this

... I smile at the thought ... thanks for the reminder

[RoseThorn]

Change, if people dont like it then why r sum still here 2 keep on bringing up this same debate over and over. I have been thru alot personally and am always told not 2 quit, hang in there, it will only make u stronger - so why in TB do people just throw in the towel so easy? Rome woz not built in a day! Crime is getting worse but u dont c them quitting and they get paid peanuts! Why cant we just do wot we can and stop questioning all the time. TB will get there in time and people will come and go, so what. We were not born with all the knowlege and answers, took us years 2 learn from many people and we r still learning. I have seen TB grow thanks 2 the committed few but some just talk and actually do nothing. Yes lets b who we r but within reason and showing a little respect never hurt anyone, nothing wrong with compromise, it is wot makes all relationships work so why not use it here. Quit finding fault! Freedom of speech, yes, but also consider others. As 4 non members, just dont know why they r here? They should get 10 posts as a free trial, a taster, then if they like and want more they must pay membership 2 show comitment. Do u get dstv without paying subs per month, this is just once a year and u r not obligated 2 do anything. Just get so sick of the same old nonsense!
Posted via Mobile Device

[AMZ]

YOU are questioning the commitment of people who joined and paid their membership subscriptions? That's rich. :roll:

If a person joins today, he pays R350. He immediately gets back about R270 in value and 10% discount from various suppliers for 12 months. Suggesting that paying a subscription automatically equals committment to the cause. Now that is rich. :roll: :roll:

thats not Rich, its AMZ :roll:

Hey, I hate SABC 2 TOO!

Yeah, so do I, but I didn't throw the whole TV out the window because of that.

Why do i want to task myself with that impossible job.

The proof is in the pudding.
Ultimately peeps who are here longer than a year or so, avail themselves in one way or another....they contibute.

You should saddle yourself with the impossible job because you are differentiating between people on those grounds. To be able to differentiate accurately, you should at least have made an accurate assessment.

I have been here for longer than a year and will hang around for some time to come (sorry BMWFan, RoseThorn and others, but that's how it is), yet the fact that I am not a member is constantly thrown in my face, mostly by National Committee members.

AMZ, you and BB are some of the most interesting and finest post-sharers. Always fun to listen at and some very good, valid and interesting points you often make (and have)!

As I don't know you (as most from the Western Cape and I'm sure a lot of others), I cannot judge you, but PLEEEZZ explain to us uninformed sods out here:

WHY DO YOU NOT BECOME MEMBERS?

It is sort of a way of showing your commitment and with all you guys have said and done so far, we can see you are committed to TB. To someone who does not know of this, your replies and good comments can carry so much more weight as members than when it seems just like someone on the site for some banter.

I know you will take it in the light I have written, as we have shared a few posts and I highly admire you. So shed some light?

Thanks for the kind words HF. They are appreciated. Thanks for acknowledging that you can see my committment to TB. That is appreciated and especially respected.

Why am I not a member?

It is a difficult question answer in a short and sweet manner. Up to now I have kept the reasons off the forum as it is bound to create controversy, which isn't really neccesary. Maybe it is time though, so here goes, but as my reason for not joining whent through phases it is a bit of a long story. Apologies for the bulleted list, but it helps me order my thoughts:

• I arrived on the TB forum think it was just another forum. A place for banter, joking, talking nonsense and sharing some ideas on rides, parts, etc. I didn't really have any idea of the TB Awareness campaign that was actually the foundation for the forum. Joining was therefore not on my mind.
• After a short period the forum led me to understand about TB and what TB is really about. It looked like a club to me and I don't like to join clubs. If I am honest with myself, I don't really know why not, I just don't. So, because TB looked like a club to me, I chose not to join, but made the decision to support the cause anyway. It is similar to me being a "member" of a CMA Chapter, but not being a member of the CMA itself. I must say, that at the CMA Chapter where I am involved, they regard my opinions and input quite high and I am even seen as their "TB Contact" as I often get stickers, bibs, etc. for them. Anyway, I digress. I did not want to join the club and it is not the fault of the club. It's a personal thing.
• Some time later I decided that TBAwareness is more important than my personal dislike for clubs. I also realised that TB, although it looks like a club in many ways, wasn't one. At that time we suffered a bit of a financial setback and I didn't have the money to join. I was planning to join as soon as the bucks became available.
• We managed to slap the bank manager back into submission and cash flow improved. I was ready to join, but then a strange thing happened. Over time a few members offered to pay my subscription and I thank those from my heart, however, just around the AGM some offered to pay my subscription and then sort if hinted at how we would sort them (then being the National Committee) out. I thought it prudent to not join as I do not make people pawns in my life and I will not be a pawn in anothers, especially not in circumstances such as these.
• There is also another issue that I have noted, with some dismay. I have been in places where large groups of bikers gather. I have often heard members, with yellow triangles here on the forum, rip TB apart. One person said the following one day: "DrinkBike. We are always right and the more we drink, the more we are right", with the mates rolling with mirth. Look, I understand that some will be seriously unhappy with the organisation and it is certainly their right, but somehow I have declared TB's Enemy #1. I have never been that negative about TB. Yes, I think some Committee Members, Mods and so on are not competent, but that is really just an old fart's opinion and shouldn''t be taken too seriously. The point is, I have never and will never run down the TB Awareness Campaign and I always do what I can to promote and support it. It makes me angry, that somehow, R350 buys you the right to run TB into the ground and not paying the R350 allows people like Ignoramus, RoseThorn, BMWFan and others to declare you persona-non-grata.
• At present I am not joining and the truthful reason is probably that I am just too hardegat. I have decided that I will prove to those who are sitting pretty with a yellow triangle, declaring non-members, not welcome, that I will stay and I will do my utmost to make a difference. As long as the heading of this forum is The Home of the ThinkBike Community and it's Supporters I will be here giving my support to the best of my ability.

Please se ethe above as how I feel and perceive all of this. Some thoughts may well be incorrect, but they are my thoughts. The question really is, will my presence make a positive difference? I think it will. You think it will. Some think it might. Many think it won't. Who knows? Only the future will tell.

[Brown Bear]

thats not Rich, its AMZ :roll:

Someone is looking for a Noddy Award two months running...

[OLEWAPPER]

Equipment

Special motor clothing is both heating and crumple zone. Therefore you need good protective clothing even on a summer day. Every summer bikers wearing slippers and shorts can be seen. This way you take unnecessary risk. When falling you will loose your skin completely! Some insurance companies don't pay for cosmetic surgery if the biker didn't wear good protective clothing. Always wear a helmet, protective jacket and pants, boots and gloves.
The obligatory use of a helmet on a motorbike was for some people reason to stop biking. Loss of the sense of freedom. Without a helmet you have the risk of loosing all senses - for ever. A good fitting helmet is besides being safe comfortably warm. Choose a helmet with a bright colour. These are better visible and much cooler in summer. Reflective stickers increase visibility but are hard to get. Garagists doing maintenance on eg. police cars might sell them to you.
Protective clothing should be warm, waterproof and proof to abrasion. Different clothes must be combined to get all this - unless you have a lot of money. I ride in a Goretex jacket and leather trousers. The jacket is waterproof and breathing. Leather pants are comfortably warm and keeps me firm on the buddy seat. When raining I use separate rain trousers. On hot summer days I use a light enduro-jacket with protection and ventilation openings. A jacket with protection is recommended. Like with helmets bright colours are better visible than dark ones. Motor clothes of German manufacturers nearly always have some reflective parts and tested protection.
Boots not only keep your feet warm - they also protect you from stones etc. launched by the front wheel. Good boots protect your ankles. Enduro or motor cross boots have extra protection. Sturdy boots for walking with Goretex lining are also very usable.
The right gloves are made of leather or a fabric enforced with kevlar or some other non abrasive material. When falling one always puts out the hands first. It is better to wrap them well. Some manufacturers enforce gloves with beautiful metal pins. These can cause awful scratches on the tank of your bike. The buttons of your jacket can do the same.
Finally it is a good idea to protect your ears for excessive noise. Governments made rules for the level of noise in factories and near airports. Research proved that noise makes ill. The noise coming from the exhaustpipe of motorbikes is also subject to government rules. The decibels inside your helmet are your own responsibility. A motorbiker has to cope with the sound of his own bike and foremost with the noise caused by the air that passes. At 100 kmh your ears have to cope with 95 dB. This causes permanent hearing damage within 15 minutes.
It makes sense to do something on protection against noise. The well known yellow or orange foam plugs only have little effect. It is better to wear professional otoplastics. These plugs are specially made for a persons ears and block the damaging (high) frequencies. The beautiful sound of your engine coming from the exhaustpipe still can be enjoyed and traffic around you is audible. That awful high tone inside the helmet has gone forever. Unfortunately some governments are deaf when it comes to ear protection and unfortunately declare them illegal!
A second possibility is a 'silent' helmet. The German magazine Tourenfahrer (August 1996) reported about the noise level inside twenty different helmets. The legislation on noise inside a working environment was used as a measure. Most silent helmets in this test were Baehr Silencer, de Uvex GP500 en de BMW System 3 Evolution.

[Fox]

jjjjjjjjjeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz ... I missed alotta action

BB
AMZ
SV Mad
Brendon
Widow
BMW Fan:evil:
Scobs

[Scobs]

If a person joins today, he pays R350. He immediately gets back about R270 in value and 10% discount from various suppliers for 12 months. Suggesting that paying a subscription automatically equals committment to the cause. Now that is rich. :roll: :roll:







Yeah, so do I, but I didn't throw the whole TV out the window because of that.



You should saddle yourself with the impossible job because you are differentiating between people on those grounds. To be able to differentiate accurately, you should at least have made an accurate assessment.

I have been here for longer than a year and will hang around for some time to come (sorry BMWFan, RoseThorn and others, but that's how it is), yet the fact that I am not a member is constantly thrown in my face, mostly by National Committee members.



Thanks for the kind words HF. They are appreciated. Thanks for acknowledging that you can see my committment to TB. That is appreciated and especially respected.

Why am I not a member?

It is a difficult question answer in a short and sweet manner. Up to now I have kept the reasons off the forum as it is bound to create controversy, which isn't really neccesary. Maybe it is time though, so here goes, but as my reason for not joining whent through phases it is a bit of a long story. Apologies for the bulleted list, but it helps me order my thoughts:

• I arrived on the TB forum think it was just another forum. A place for banter, joking, talking nonsense and sharing some ideas on rides, parts, etc. I didn't really have any idea of the TB Awareness campaign that was actually the foundation for the forum. Joining was therefore not on my mind.
• After a short period the forum led me to understand about TB and what TB is really about. It looked like a club to me and I don't like to join clubs. If I am honest with myself, I don't really know why not, I just don't. So, because TB looked like a club to me, I chose not to join, but made the decision to support the cause anyway. It is similar to me being a "member" of a CMA Chapter, but not being a member of the CMA itself. I must say, that at the CMA Chapter where I am involved, they regard my opinions and input quite high and I am even seen as their "TB Contact" as I often get stickers, bibs, etc. for them. Anyway, I digress. I did not want to join the club and it is not the fault of the club. It's a personal thing.
• Some time later I decided that TBAwareness is more important than my personal dislike for clubs. I also realised that TB, although it looks like a club in many ways, wasn't one. At that time we suffered a bit of a financial setback and I didn't have the money to join. I was planning to join as soon as the bucks became available.
• We managed to slap the bank manager back into submission and cash flow improved. I was ready to join, but then a strange thing happened. Over time a few members offered to pay my subscription and I thank those from my heart, however, just around the AGM some offered to pay my subscription and then sort if hinted at how we would sort them (then being the National Committee) out. I thought it prudent to not join as I do not make people pawns in my life and I will not be a pawn in anothers, especially not in circumstances such as these.
• There is also another issue that I have noted, with some dismay. I have been in places where large groups of bikers gather. I have often heard members, with yellow triangles here on the forum, rip TB apart. One person said the following one day: "DrinkBike. We are always right and the more we drink, the more we are right", with the mates rolling with mirth. Look, I understand that some will be seriously unhappy with the organisation and it is certainly their right, but somehow I have declared TB's Enemy #1. I have never been that negative about TB. Yes, I think some Committee Members, Mods and so on are not competent, but that is really just an old fart's opinion and shouldn''t be taken too seriously. The point is, I have never and will never run down the TB Awareness Campaign and I always do what I can to promote and support it. It makes me angry, that somehow, R350 buys you the right to run TB into the ground and not paying the R350 allows people like Ignoramus, RoseThorn, BMWFan and others to declare you persona-non-grata.
• At present I am not joining and the truthful reason is probably that I am just too hardegat. I have decided that I will prove to those who are sitting pretty with a yellow triangle, declaring non-members, not welcome, that I will stay and I will do my utmost to make a difference. As long as the heading of this forum is The Home of the ThinkBike Community and it's Supporters I will be here giving my support to the best of my ability.

Please se ethe above as how I feel and perceive all of this. Some thoughts may well be incorrect, but they are my thoughts. The question really is, will my presence make a positive difference? I think it will. You think it will. Some think it might. Many think it won't. Who knows? Only the future will tell.

What are the blades for. I don't get it

[AMZ]

What are the blades for. I don't get it

Oi! You must be a youngster!?

You post was sharp. Very sharp. In fact, as sharp as a Minora Blade.

[RVFmal]

Change, if people dont like it then why r sum still here 2 keep on bringing up this same debate over and over. I have been thru alot personally and am always told not 2 quit, hang in there, it will only make u stronger - so why in TB do people just throw in the towel so easy? Rome woz not built in a day! Crime is getting worse but u dont c them quitting and they get paid peanuts! Why cant we just do wot we can and stop questioning all the time. TB will get there in time and people will come and go, so what. We were not born with all the knowlege and answers, took us years 2 learn from many people and we r still learning. I have seen TB grow thanks 2 the committed few but some just talk and actually do nothing. Yes lets b who we r but within reason and showing a little respect never hurt anyone, nothing wrong with compromise, it is wot makes all relationships work so why not use it here. Quit finding fault! Freedom of speech, yes, but also consider others. As 4 non members, just dont know why they r here? They should get 10 posts as a free trial, a taster, then if they like and want more they must pay membership 2 show comitment. Do u get dstv without paying subs per month, this is just once a year and u r not obligated 2 do anything. Just get so sick of the same old nonsense!
Posted via Mobile Device

With all due respect RT, does one have to be a paid up member to be part of the campaign? Is a non-member to be consigned to be treated as a lesser person who's views are deemed not as important as those who have the ability to pay to be part of TB?

This smacks of a elitism and denigrates those who are supportive of the initiative yet for a variety of reasons have chosen or who cannot become members.

In addition to and with reference to my post on this topic, if this is going to be a forum which is moderated with increasing severity, then the committee needs to decide whether to keep this forum open to the public. By doing so they are inviting people with conflicting views and who have joined of the opinion that it is an open forum with a non-conformist perspective where they are allowed to choose a nick that they think portrays who they are and where they can convey views that may be disagreed with, to leave.

If the committee is concerned about their corporate sponsors view on what is posted here, then the forum should be closed to paid up members only who have been advised that they can only post that which conforms to the TB policy and have agreed to it.

You cannot have an open PUBLIC forum where views and opinions are curtailed to the extent of telling people what they can and cannot say to the extent where it impacts on a persons ability to express themselves for who and what they are.

I have been a member of this forum for sometime and I have reduced my posting and visiting (and has prevented me from becoming a paid up member) due to the politics that have been exibited by the committee and moderators.

As much as I believe in the cause, I cannot bring myself to support an initiative where freedom of speech and expression is curtailed to pandy to the apparent protection of income by corporate sponsors.

I myself run an NPO and I would never curtail the views of our members and alliance partners just to suit those who feel they have a right to dictate to us what we can and cannot say by virtue of the fact that they sponsor us. We have a cause we are dedicated to, but we will never allow anyone to subscribe to us that we have to bow to their views. Yes, we do make concessions, but they have to understand that conflicting views leads to debate and debate leads to discussions which in turn lead to growth and open-mindedness.

Over-moderation leads to a centralisation of power and an autocratic system which in turn leads to aliention of people who can add value to the cause, but who are prevented from doing so.

I have seen it happen before and I would be extremely disappointed to see it happen here, and it is.

This is not aimed at you personally, so I would appreciate it if you read this with an open mind.

[DaCat]

Excellent post RVFmal I agree wholeheartedly.

[RVFmal]

Excellent post RVFmal I agree wholeheartedly.

I take no pride in my post, but by the same token, I cannot let what is ripping this forum and movement apart go unchallenged.

A lot of heart and effort has gone into this initiative and I am saddened that it could be undone due to unnecessary politics.

Thank you DC, your support is appreciated We can only ever make a difference by working together as opposed to creating rifts and fighting about issues that are superfluous to the cause.

We have been fighting to get welfare organizations to work together as opposed to fighting with one another for some time, but politics and personal views always tend to get in the way of reaching the same goal and it gets rather infuriating. I would hate to see the same thing happen here.

Families fight, but in the end sensibility always prevails. I can only hope that the same principles prevail here.

[Beachbum]

From a very sincere point of view...

I thank everyone for being individuals, because if we were all the same this world would be very boring. I thank you for your insight, your advice and your ideas, keep them coming. I know you have the ideals and goals of THINKBIKE at heart, and know that in the end the 1 person on a bike who has never heard of THINKBIKE will more than likely be the beneficiary of our hard work.
And in the big scheme of things, we did good, all of us.

So hope to see you all around, its been interesting to say the least.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend, stay safe...

BB