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Thread: Correct FOOT position for knee-down

  1. #1
    Biker Trash Meths's Avatar
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    Default Correct FOOT position for knee-down

    Fresh from another day at Zwartkops and I'm battling with something here, maybe the gurus can help.

    Track riding, I have the footpeg under the back of my toes . . . kinda between ball and toe. When leaning it, I am rolling my foot over but find that my leathers feel too tight - can't get my knee more than 45-degrees out.
    As a result I find I scrape bike parts or toe-of-boot before I get anywhere near the knee-slider.

    Clues ?

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    My guess is that you need to get off the bike a bit more - I used to have the boot problem until I got used to getting off the bike.

    Are you riding the ER on the track? Then maybe talk to JMass - his Buell has a similar riding position and he seems to do a pretty good job of knee draggin'.

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    Biker Trash Meths's Avatar
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    I'm quite happy to get off the bike, just not sure what I'm doing wrong with the boot/foot thing. I'm getting right down next to the tank with the top-half, half-a-cheek off the seat with the bottom half, but keeping the knee in - a wierd, cramped style.
    Took both the ER6 and Drika's SV650 around yesterday, similar problem. I'm sure I'm missing something basic.

    It's almost as if I should tip-toe on the footpeg to keep the toes out the way . . . but that's a near impossible angle - maybe the leathers just don't fit - need to be lengthened across the crotch area so can open wider.

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    Perhaps you should look at the pants, but leathers do have a bit of a cramped feeling if you're not used to them. Sounds to me like you have your foot in the correct position - but the ER isn't a sports bike, so maybe you can't expect to use a similar style.

    Try and focus on where your head is - it should get well across the centre line of the bike for your 'lean' to be effective, just getting a cheeck over isn't enough.

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    Evil Biker Scum JMass's Avatar
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    Meths

    I think you trying too hard to get your knee down. Your focus should on your position in relation to your bike, you dont wanna get right out of the bike, you wanna get comfy off the side, however much that may be.

    Then focus on your line through the corner, as this will determine your corner spped, which in turn will decrease your lean angle as you get hotter though the corner.

    On the Buell ALL i wanted was to put my knee down, found a super article in Superbike (will look for it for you ;) ) which says what i have just said. DO NOT go into the corner with the aim of putting your knee down, cause you won't. Let the track come up to your knee, dont try and push your knee into the track, use your knee as a feeler gauge.

    As far as your legs outward angle is concerned, your pant can't be THAT tight that it would stop you short. Your foot sounds like it is in the right place, maybe see/think were your heel is, this will have an impact on the amount of angle you can throw out your knee, geometry.

    Speaking to the other Buellers, they reckon i shouldnt really be dragging pegs (but i like sparks ), their solution, climb out of the bike even more!!! This i have yet to try though.

    Were is your head, your shoulders, and chest when you climb off the bike going in to the corner Meths??
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    Evil Biker Scum JMass's Avatar
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    Oh, and another thing dude, the Z is nice, but I personally found Phakisa way better in terms of fine tuning your cornering style, Z is a bit more tight and tech, ie. slower. Phakisa however lets you carry a much higher speed through, get lower, and feel that gentle grinding against the outside of your knee.

    Sitting here thinking about it, the only thing it can be is you are not moving your torso much, this will ultimately negate alot of cheek off the seat action, climbing out of the bike lets you **** around with the bikes percieved and actual CG, hoop's contact patch, etc.
    Also check if you let yourself slide back on the seat, or if you push your courting tackle up against the tank, again, geometry.

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    Biker Trash Meths's Avatar
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    I'll go through all this again slowly in detail - looks getting an instructor or two to hold the bike while stationary may prove to be a requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMass
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    Kyalami . . . tomorrow, 14th with Track-Daze, hence the hurried consultation.

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    JMass has come up with some real truths there - forget about the knee - concentrate on your corner speed - that's what I did and I started going faster.

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    Hooligan Biker
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    Hi

    Cool that you could ride in the week, track must have been pretty empty.

    I am still struggling with the same thing you are. One thing I have noticed when I have got it right were the following; Not forcing it really works and getting off the bike a bit more. Sometimes you think you are really hanging off but it is not that much. It is like popping a wheelie, that first time when your wheel is only 5 degrees off the road, you feel like you are going over backwards.

    I must make time to go to Z again would love to do one in the week!!

    Take it easy
    Morph

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    Hee's some tips I got when I first started looking into getting a knee down on a bike, and I found this helped me a lot....

    But then again I must just say that getting a knee down looks cool, but isn't always needed. I've seen some seriously fast guys without ever getting a knee down.

    You need to get you body position correct, else no knee will ever get close to the ground.

    Be smooth, take it slow and learn the track first, then you'll start getting faster around the corners, which makes it a lot easier to get a knee down.

    swivel around the tank, do not move up and down when moving your **** off the seat, this is very common, and really doesn't help with smoothness at all.

    Now for the main thing. Try and kiss the mirror - same side as the turn, open your elbow to help assist with counter steering and stop you from gripping the steering to hard which could cause other problems.

    Step onto the peg, same side as what you are turning, and tun your heal against the kick panel. Get onto the toe on the peg, then you'll know your foot is out the way, now for the biggest part.

    try and push your knee backwards not your pelvis, only the knee. Stay relaxed at all time, and slowly open up the throttle. This will force the bike down slightly more, and over time you will have a knee down.

    Remeber 3 things.
    Stay relaxed
    slide around the tank, not hop around it and
    push the knee towards the rear peg, not the your pelvis.

    But then again.... besides it looking really cool when done correctly, remeber that this does not make you any faster around a track or on the road....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcticflipper
    Step onto the peg, same side as what you are turning, and tun your heal against the kick panel. Get onto the toe on the peg, then you'll know your foot is out the way, now for the biggest part.
    Morning.

    I am not the best one to give advice, but my 2c.

    If your feet is not in the correct place your whole body position is going to be wrong (call it body laungage.....sp?). It is more dificult to get the top of your body to move into the correct place, if your feet is turned into the opposite dirrection. Like Flliper said, going into a right hand corner, put your right foot on its toes, and keep your left foot on the heal, and vice versa. Move your weight over onto your toe.This means your body is automotically moving into the corner.

    Oh!!! Go scratch your slidders against the wall if looking cool is what you want. Kneedown is not the measure of how fast you are.

    Be fast by developing your skills, like countersteering, weight distribution, body position, relaxing your arms ect. You will then only become faster. Your ultimate coal is to be smooth, then you will be fast.
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  12. #12
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    decent superbike magazine video on how to get you knee down - interesting and informative

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...92492202946442

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    Hooligan Biker Snoopy's Avatar
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    Jmass, Is this you?
    There were sparks coming off this bike at times!
    Pic taken at Zwartkops on 30.09.2006 - 1st race Thunder Bikes.


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    Evil Biker Scum JMass's Avatar
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    Nope Snoopy, that be Dave chasing Trevor.
    The Buell likes throwing sparks, specially when Dave throws one round a track, he be a master on the Buell.
    Don't follow me, you won't make it

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    This be the Pimpmeister you refering to...???



    skinny at tankgirls dot co dot za

  16. #16
    Biker Trash Meths's Avatar
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    Post subject was FOOT position for a reason - knee slider to be used as a gauge - to know when to stop leaning . . . Toes are not as good when used as "feelers" . . . often upsetting me/the bike when they impact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meths
    When leaning it, I am rolling my foot over . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by JMass
    . . .see/think were your heel is . . . geometry.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticFlipper
    . . .heal against the kick panel . . . toe on the peg. . .
    Geometry - I wasn't moving my foot, but rolling it over.
    Apparently I would have to lift it up and tip-toe on the peg, swivel foot "outwards" toward the inside of the turn - even though this gives much less stability.

    Speed was much improved this time - managing to get pass a couple of folk on litre bikes, to the point of lapping some of them. Instructor (Rick?) came to check out the bike, says I've got a problem with the bike, suspension is too soft to be able to go much faster with it - that's why it's "walking around" in the corners.
    Also said that in terms of the foot position, problem is that the ER6 footpegs are more tourer-type and so I will find that my toes touch ground first. Either change rear-sets (higher, more to the back) or change bikes. Reckons that even if I keep my toes out the way, the hero-bars will touch ground before any knee would.
    Rupert shows me his blackened-toe boot and tells me that toes are great feelers anyway :roll:

    From photos, it's apparent that my foot isn't on the peg all the way either . . . so I'm out-but-not-down.


    isagabe - Hi. Never managed to get that video to load/play, times out on me.

    All other, thanx for the chat and ideas.
    My next step is to take the SV to track school and see how that compares.
    Practice, practice, practice

  17. #17
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    Nice one Meths !!!
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    Some get back on and ride again.
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  18. #18
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    Fark dude, you be lookin' like a pro on the ER right there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Meths
    My next step is to take the SV to track school and see how that compares.
    Not sure you will be quicker on the SV - it has horribly soft front suspension. Does have a nice motor though! ;)

  19. #19
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    I can vouch for the SV as a all round tool.

    Tifosi you are right about the suspension. I have had mine done but it is still not what I want. I replaced the rear with a GSX-R 1000 shock but sadly that only made the front feel worse.

    Cornering that are okay but stopping, you bottom them out too easily. It is a sweet ride except for a few bargain bin parts they put on it!!

    Morpheus

  20. #20
    Hardcore Biker dave31's Avatar
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    I have a pair of GSXR750 front springs that one of you could borrow and see if it improves the SV's ride...... I replaced my fronts with 10 weights instead of the standard 8's and my rear shock with a WP

    I want them back as I will replace the upgraded springs when I sell the bike but you are welcome to experiment with them for now....
    When is the next race??

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